Creating a supportive office culture is hard work, but having staff that adores you, even with minimal interaction, requires an extraordinary form of leadership. Ed Buison is one such leader, as he and his wife Eileen have taken it upon themselves to creative inclusive, caring environments wherever they work and are called to lead. In today’s conversation with Ed, we discover why he and his wife gravitated toward BIGGBY®, and why they chose to start a business in a time of financial turmoil. Our conversation then turns to how Ed’s evolution from shy to confident and outgoing serves him in his work today, and how he feels about the BIGGBY® COFFEE Purpose Award that he and Eileen received this year after being voted for by their colleagues. We also learn about how Ed develops his staff into leaders, how he and Eileen cultivate their inspirational office culture, examples of how they support their hardworking staff unconditionally, and how Ed hopes to achieve the biggest goals he’s set for himself.
Guest Bio:
Ed Buison is an Area Representative of BIGGBY® COFFEE in Oakland County, Michigan. He’s a B.S. graduate in Computer Science and a Master’s recipient in Business Administration from Wayne State University, with a decade of experience in computer programming. Together with his wife, Eileen, Ed has two other businesses—Avalon Care, LLC and CuCenTech—and the pair now have their third and fourth BIGGBY® COFFEE branches in development. Ed’s love languages are words of affirmation and physical touch.
Key Points From This Episode:
Quotes:
“What really drew us [into BIGGBY®] was the idea of supporting your community, because we do believe that as a business, you are – obligated or you have to give back to the community because those are your customers; they’re the ones supporting you.” — Ed Buison [0:14:20]
“[As] you do things more and more, you get more comfortable, and then maybe you even start to enjoy it.” — Ed Buison [0:24:47]
“I always believe that the people within an organization are a reflection of the culture of the organization, which is truly established and nurtured by the owner; by the leader.” — @MikeJMcfall [0:26:33]
“We hate to lose good [staff members] but we’re so happy that we’ve been a part of this connection to get them to the next step.” — Ed Buison [0:30:10]
“We don’t do it for the recognition but it is nice when you’re recognized.” — Ed Buison [0:44:48]
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[INTRO]
[0:00:07] Laura Eich:Welcome to Love in Leadership, the podcast where we explore what happens if you bring a little or a lot of love into the workspace. My name is Laura Eich and I am joined as always by the one and only, Mike James McFall. Mike, how you doing?
[0:00:21] Mike McFall: I’m good, Laura. Yes. Welcome back to Michigan
[0:00:24] Laura Eich: It's horrible here.
[0:00:28] Mike McFall:It's not horrible, they're clouds, they're beautiful.
[0:00:31] Laura Eich: It's just gray, no. So, I love Michigan. I love Michigan in the fall. I love Michigan in the summer, but when we lose all the leaves and it's just gray and there's no sunshine for multiple days in a row, I'm not okay. And it's just been gray since we dipped below the clouds landing back in Detroit.
[0:00:50] Mike McFall:Yes. Yes, you've had a cover ever since. But one thing, this is how I approach this time of year. This is when I get worked on and it's proving out right now too, right? I am like ultra-productive right now. I know, like summertime is not a productive season for me. But like this and then winter is when I get, it's when I just plow through stuff. So, I don't know what it is. I actually feel sort of comfortable and cozy in my office. I don't really want to be outside because it's freaking cold and windy and wet.
But anyways, so speaking of the weather, let's talk about AI.
[0:00:50] Laura Eich: What a segue.
[0:01:34] Mike McFall:You and I talked a little bit about you were using some tools yesterday and I actually had mentioned the article I wrote for Forbes on it, and I think it's a crazy, fascinating world right now. I think to me, I live in a very positive space around it, but anyway, I'll open it up. I want to get your take on it.
[0:01:55] Laura Eich: So, I'm so conflicted, I guess, is where I'm at on AI, because I use, like I use ChatGPT yesterday when I was working on a document management templating system, which sounds really kind of square and boring, but I needed some help. So, sometimes I use ChatGPT to just like get me kickstarted into a topic and get some ideas for what I might look for. Because if you Google document management system, you're just going to get a whole bunch of advertisements.
Anyway, it was helpful and I do find it helpful in the workplace. I sometimes have it edit for me if I'm writing something. I'm like, “Can you edit this to sound more punchy or to sound clearer?” Because I use too many words all the time and things like that. I love that. I'm struggling with things like AI application in a drive-thru setting because we, obviously, have drive-thru stores. One thing we've talked to a couple vendors about is the potential for drive-thru AI ordering.
I struggle with that in a such a people-focused company. I love the potential efficiency of it. I love the potential sort of magic that it can feel like, but also what happens to the barista interaction and that's like half of why our customers come. Anyway, I'm conflicted because I love it and I don't know how I feel about it in the setting of our stores in particular. I wonder, do you have opinions about that? I actually haven't talked to you about this part yet.
[0:03:22] Mike McFall: Yes. I do have opinions. One, we've always, in the last 100 years, we've been leveraging the machine to make us smarter and better at what we do as we move forward. To me, I look at AI as that. It's a machine, and it can make us better at what we do. There's all this fear around it. I look back in the progression of technology, there's always been that fear. This fear of AI is not a newfound fear. I think that this feels a little spooky because it has almost like a human form to it in a weird way, or you imagine a human form when you're engaging it.
But the article I wrote was really about that if you don't engage this stuff, you're going to get left behind. So, we need to embrace it. As leaders, we need to be okay with supporting our people and learning it and understanding how to use the different kinds of tools. To me today, the tools, they're not that dynamic or dramatic. You're talking about, I mean, ChatGPT it's really just a very sophisticated Google and it's going to get better and it's going to learn and I love that about it. But the other applications that I use, a lot of it is just sort of like around data and organizing data and like the really better ways of doing all that.
But in terms of your direct question, I don't know that that machine is going to get in the way of the human-centric organization that we're developing. I think that it could change and alter the interaction with the consumer, but that doesn't change how we treat our people, how we engage our people, how we support our people, and so on.
As a customer in the world, you're just going to see more and more and more of it. So, we can resist it and say it sucks or it's like, “Well, it is what it is.” It's like going to a kiosk in a retail store and placing your order, right? When we go to a kiosk and punch in our own order and pay, does that feel spooky and weird? Not really, or mobile ordering, right? So, placing your order on your phone and picking up your product, it's the future, right? So, how do we then/therefore engage maybe differently or in a more human way, even through this technology? I think that's the quest and I think those that figure out how to do that will be the ones that use AI in the most powerful way.
[0:06:08] Laura Eich:Yes. I think the spookiness mostly doesn't get me, though I will say when I was talking to ChatGPT yesterday because that's what we do. I do use my pleases and thank yous because I feel like I need to. Also, there was a moment when it wasn't responding like it normally does, and I went, “Are you still there?” And it said, “Yes, I'm still here.” And then it proceeded to answer my question. I'm like, “What were you doing?”
[0:06:34] Mike McFall:Did you ask?
[0:06:36] Laura Eich: No. I should have. Now, I'm regretting that. But yes, there's those little moments where I'm like, “What's happening? Why weren't you responding?” Because then it just proceeded to answer like normal. I do wonder what will be lost. I think the drive-thru application is magical. I don't obviously want it to be like when you're on the phone and they're like, “What do you need to do? Please say representative or help with blah, blah, blah.” I don't want our customers ever to have that experience where you're screaming into the phone like, “Representative.”
But I do think, and I wonder what will be lost in those moments. I think of one of my regulars that has stuck in my brain for forever was named Brandy. She came through. We knew exactly what Brandy wanted. We knew the way she wanted. As soon as we heard Brandy's voice at the drive-thru, we'd be like, “Oh, hey Brandy, come on forward.” Then we would just have more time to talk, because that's what we did with Brandy, we chatted.
So, I do wonder what happens in those situations, but I also think, I do think we have to find a way to embrace it without losing who we are, basically. That's the challenge at hand.
[0:07:45] Mike McFall:Yes, that's our work. That's what we have to take on, right? So, I can worry about it. I do get a little anxious about it, but I try to live in a space of, “Holy smokes, is this making us smarter and better?” I was thinking the other day that when I'm driving my car, my machine, the car now turns the bright lights on and off automatically when there's traffic or a car coming at me and so on. It is like nine million times better at that than me doing it manually. That's safer because like a lot of times I will forget to turn the high beam on after the car goes by, and that high beam might be able to prevent me from running into a deer or whatever it might be.
So, I look at it that way. The machine is, for so many things, the machine is better at it than we are. It'll just make us better and make life easier and so on. So, that's kind of the headspace I try to live in. I know that's not AI.
[0:08:43] Laura Eich: I think it's the same type of technology of technology though.
[0:08:46] Mike McFall:Sort of. I mean, you and I talking about technology is like you and I talking about –
[0:08:52] Laura Eich: This is our bread and butter, Mike. What are you talking about?
[0:08:57] Mike McFall:But anyway, I really do try to live in a positive space around it.
[0:09:02] Laura Eich: Yes, that's good. I saw, if we're using sort of the car example, I saw something, I think it was an Instagram reel because I'm a millennial and I don't do TikTok. So, I saw an Instagram reel where it showed the power of decision-making of a car. It was a situation where a car was going to hit something and it either was going to hit a person, like a pedestrian, or it was going to have to hit a car and it chose to hit the car instead of the pedestrian. It's like, that's great. It probably saved to life kind of thing. So, I agree, that there is power in it and embracing it. And in the meantime, thankfully, we have people who are very focused on the people, which brings us to our guest for today. Very excited to talk to Ed Buison. He is a BIGGBY® franchise owner and our Purpose Award winner for 2024. We're going to get into all of that with him.
But I'm so excited to talk to him about his love of people, because he's a really good person who loves people.
[0:10:05] Mike McFall:Yes. Ed is very, very special and this is one I've been looking forward to. I know Ed well and I am predicting that this is going to be a special conversation.
[0:10:15] Laura Eich: Yes, I think so. So, let's jump into it with Ed Buison.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:10:18] Laura Eich: Oh my, okay, let's jump in. Hey Ed, how you doing?
[0:10:23] Ed Buison: Pretty good guys, how are you?
[0:10:25] Laura Eich: Doing very well. We're going to have you introduce yourself because I think you can do a better job than we can. So, if you could give us the quick rundown, who are you, where are you from, what is it that you do in the world?
[0:10:38] Ed Buison: So, I am from Livonia, Michigan. I've been in BIGGBY® for about 10 years since last September. Yes, I have four stores. I’m the area representative of Oakland County, Michigan. We have four more on the way.
[0:10:52] Laura Eich: Amazing. You said 10 years, so September 2014?
[0:10:56] Ed Buison: Yes. We actually signed our first agreement in January of 2014, but having a store open was September 2014.
[0:11:03] Laura Eich: Very good. Well, happy 10 years, happy decade.
[0:11:08] Mike McFall:Nine months from signing to opening sounds like a dream right now.
[0:11:12] Laura Eich: Yes, that's pretty good.
[0:11:13] Mike McFall:That is pretty good.
[0:11:14] Ed Buison: It was super-fast, but –
[0:11:16] Laura Eich: That's amazing. How did you get here? How did you get to BIGGBY® land? What in your life led you from wherever you started? I know this is kind of an existential question to how you landed in the world of BIGGBY®?
[0:11:31] Ed Buison: Sure. That's a good question. So, I actually graduated from Wayne State with a computer science degree. I was a programmer, computer programmer for 10 years and I worked for a small business, along with my wife, Eileen. Around 2008, there was of course kind of the economic downturn in the area with all the auto companies and we were both part-time. I was three days a week, she was two days a week, and we were struggling hard. House was in foreclosure, massive debt, and that's when we decided, what are we going to do? We need to make a change. Are we going to look for other jobs? Are we going to just call it quits and roll over in the gutter? What is our options?
So, we decided to go into business and we do nothing about business. I didn't even think about ever starting a business growing up. And 2010, we started our first business, which was a home healthcare, and it was something that we just knew how to do in a sense, not necessarily what we wanted to do for some reason. We always wanted to have a restaurant, but we've never worked in food service, even as a server or as a host. So, we figured that we probably didn't want to go head first into a full-service restaurant, not knowing anything or experiencing anything in that world.
The other thing we decided was, are we going to do the franchising route or start from scratch? The home healthcare, we did start from scratch. Of course, there's a huge learning curve with the medical, red tape documentation, all that good stuff, but we did it. And we decided to look for other options. So, we decided to go franchising route and started looking, limited food options. Of course, BIGGBY® Coffee and some other concepts that are predominantly in the area. Then somebody had recommended, it's like, “Hey, look at – check out this place called BIGGBY®.” I said, “What's that?” “It's a coffee shop.” “Oh, we don't really drink coffee. We drink tea.” So, I was like, “Okay. We'll check it out.”
So, there was actually one in the area and we went there and we came in and the customer service was – they were so happy and bubbly and we got our – it was a tea latte, was our first drink, cinnamon-spiced tea latte. Got to the counter and the barista was like, “Hey, what are you doing this weekend?” And kind of caught me off guard because that's not normal, right? You could be like 10 years ago, he's like, “Oh, she must like me.” Because she's asking me what I'm doing this weekend. She wants to ask me out.
I leave my wife, I said, “Come over here.” And all of a sudden, I get the wrong idea. But it was great. It was a great experience. We came back, obviously, and then we went to a discovery day in Lansing and we just fell in love. We heard Bob, Mike, some of the others at the home office talk. What really drew us in was the idea of supporting your community because we do believe that as a business, you are, of course, once you are sustainable, you're since obligated or you have to give back to the community because those are your customers. They're the ones supporting you. So, you should be supporting them as well.
We came out of that discovery day in Lansing, did the tour. I mean, it was a no-brainer at that point. There wasn't really much discussion as like, “Yes, we're in. What are the next steps?” Ten years later, here we are. Interestingly, the first store that we went to more than 10 years ago, we ended up purchasing last year.
[0:15:02] Mike McFall:That’s great.
[0:15:04] Laura Eich: That’s a good deal.
[0:15:04] Ed Buison: So, it was kind of full circle. This is where we started and we were able to take over that store. That was really cool.
[0:15:10] Mike McFall:All right, Ed, I got a couple of questions. Is that still tea in your cup, or are you drinking coffee now?
[0:15:16] Ed Buison: Oh, this is definitely coffee now.
[0:15:21] Mike McFall:All right.
[0:15:22] Ed Buison: I'm a night owl, right? So, my prime time like 10 to like 3am. So, it wasn't the best idea to start a coffee shop, when you are used to staying up all night. I quickly moved to coffee –
[0:15:34] Laura Eich: Very good.
[0:15:35] Ed Buison: – just to survive, honestly.
[0:15:38] Mike McFall:I think we want to start a new mantra at BIGGBY® Coffee, which is our customer engagement policy is going to be make the customer feel like you're flirting with them.
[0:15:50] Laura Eich: Yes.
[0:15:50] Mike McFall:Who doesn't like being flirted with, right?
[0:15:53] Laura Eich: I mean, that's funny. I actually think that's probably true. People like to feel good. They like to feel seen. So, we don't want to mess with any marriages, but –
[0:16:04] Mike McFall:Well, I'm not saying act on it. I'm just saying –
[0:16:09] Laura Eich: Just make people feel.
[0:16:10] Ed Buison: – being inappropriate and it’s like, “Well, you can hug me.”
[0:16:15] Laura Eich: Perfect. I love it. I have a couple questions too because I love your story. I think it's one of the coolest stories as far as like you've talked about in other situations. You've talked about that moment in 2008. You guys were in a pretty desperate situation and then you decided to go into business for yourself and like start a business. I'm curious what those conversations with Eileen sounded like because like that's not always what people do when they're facing foreclosure and bankruptcy concerns and things like that. So, what were those conversations like?
[0:16:49] Ed Buison: It was really, what are we trying to do in life, right? What is our goals? We knew we won't have a family of some sort. We wanted to have the time and the resources, money, things like that to be able to, one, raise our family, be there for our kids, and do things and experience things together, experience life. Obviously, there's certain things that we need and it can absolutely be done with a job instead of a business.
But during that time, one, it was hard finding a job anywhere. So, two, it's like, we just need to completely change it up. When we brainstorm, they tell you don't ever limit yourself, don't think that, “Oh, this is too crazy. Let's not even consider it. Just write it down.” That's what we did, right? What are our options? We could, whatever. We came to business. Of course, the allure of business is, I get to dictate my own time, the earning potential is more. And then at the course, for many things, nobody really thinks about the downside at that point. But for us, it was like, we're already in the gutter. So, what else do we have to lose?
[0:17:59] Laura Eich: I love that.
[0:18:01] Ed Buison: We're already struggling as it is. If we try something and it doesn't work, we're in the same position that we're in. But what if it changes? We also knew that we're still skilled, right? I was working in computers. Eileen was in the facility management. So, it's like, we could try to find a job later if this business thing doesn't work. So, for us, and we said we're still young. We have time. We don't have a family at the time, so we didn't have to – we only had to worry about beating the two of us. So, it's like, “All right, let's go. Let's see what happens.” Thankfully, it's starting to work out.
[0:18:41] Laura Eich: Yes. That’s good. Did you guys discuss going into business as a couple? I don't know if you've ever talked about this in public before, so go with me here. That's a little bit of a relationship risk to go into business with your spouse. Did you guys have conversations about that? Or did you have conversations later?
[0:19:04] Ed Buison: Later, definitely. It wasn’t really a consideration as like, should we do this together, or you do the business and I'll look for work? But we just said, “This is what we're going to do.” We had all kinds of crazy ideas, t-shirt company, doing housekeeping, things like that. We came to home healthcare because we said it was something more in demand, something that we knew how to do already somewhat, and it was never a question of, should we do this together?
But later, we rented our first office, and it was 100 square feet. A hundred square feet, like smaller than some bedrooms. Somehow, we fit two desks, a file cabinet, and just like a chair, a couple chairs for a lobby. So, we're literally one desk, and then maybe a foot gap just to pass through and then another desk. So, we're together 24 hours a day and somebody had to like, “How do you work together like that all day?” There's no break. We thought that was kind of weird at first. It's like, “Why are they asking that? It's like, when you marry somebody, don't you want to be with them all the time?” That's the whole point. That's what you signed up for.
So, we got through that. But of course, it made it interesting like when we did have an argument at home, we can't escape, right? You're right there. We got to a place where we can still function with the work. But that was it. There would be silence and then you go home and then you're there again, but you have more space.
[0:20:38] Mike McFall:Ed, I want to get into, we have a former employee of yours that works with us now. He has referred to you and Eileen as the best human beings he's ever met in his entire life. I also, I want to talk to you about something I learned about you this year, which is you were super shy. I mean, I was like, what? Because that's not that voice that I know. You're incredibly outgoing and super friendly and engaging and so on.
So, I want you to talk a little bit about that transition, but more importantly, I would love to hear you talk about how I know it's very important to you to support your people in their growth and support them in their lives. And I've heard so many stories about things that you do for your employees and so on. Why is that such an important part of your organization and your culture?
[0:21:42] Ed Buison: I was shy. I remember, because my daughter, she's six and she's first grade this year. Of course, as you guys know, there are different stages as they grow up, you almost trigger your memory of when you were a kid, if you could remember that.
[0:21:59] Mike McFall:Oh, yes.
[0:21:59] Ed Buison: I remember going into first grade, it was a new school for me, and I was literally crying at the door, holding on to my dad, because you got 30 kids staring at you. You're the new kid. I was shy. So, I go in there and you do these things, but I’ve been shy probably until BIGGBY®, honestly. Public speaking was never a thing for me. When I did speech class in high school, I waited until my last semester. It's like, “Man, I hope I pass, because I can't graduate without this class.”
Well, we got into BIGGBY® and the system is there, and he's like you got to talk to customers. You build relationships and you have to be engaged in your community, and it's like, “Well, you can't do that if you don't open your mouth.” For me, working in the shop and one of my main jobs, my priority is to talk with customers, every single customer who comes in, that was scary. But it's like, if I'm going to make this work, I better do it. Because the option is this doesn't work and now we're back in the gutter. So, it's like, I better do something, right? Force myself. Overcome my fear.
So, I remember working as the milk steamer in BIGGBY®. I was like, okay, the next three customers, I'm just going to say hi, right? Get that. Okay, there's my three. Next one is, “Hi, how are you doing?” And build up to it. Then by the 20th or 30th customer, I can have somewhat of a conversation. Then maybe if a week later, it's down to 20 customers, I can have a good conversation, then 10, right? Then you get comfortable doing those things. Going into like a Chamber of Commerce event where it's like 200, 300 people in a room, I'm totally out of my comfort zone. At the time, I would stick to the wall. Hopefully, I see somebody I kind of recognize, just cling to them.
When I see friends and family, maybe years later after BIGGBY® , they're like, “Wow, you're different.” I said, “What do you mean?” They said, “Well, you're more outgoing and you talk more, especially in social situations.” It didn't really dawn on me because it's just been a gradual transformation. But now, I mean, even at BNS, going up in front of four or 500 people, that wasn't even what was scary. It's like, am I making sense? Because it was just all a blur. There's lights everywhere. That's why afterwards, I'm like, what did I say? I was like, “Did it sound okay? Was it coherent? Did it flow? Just stand there?”
[0:24:36] Laura Eich: If it makes you feel better, that's how I feel every single time I'm on the stage or on this podcast. I'm like, “I wonder what we talked about.”
[0:24:45] Ed Buison: But now, as you do it, like with anything. You do things more and more, you get more comfortable, and then maybe you even start to enjoy it. So, that's what I really do enjoy now is talking to people and getting them to – I can help them in some fashion. Obviously, that goes with our people. Early on, we recognized we wanted to have multiple stores. That's the way we're going to approach BIGGBY®. If I have 10 stores at some point, and we also was like, “Well, there's only, well, two of us, we can't be in all 10. So, we have to have a good team that's going to do it where we can support them.” Because we understand that without them, that we have to do it, but we can't, all of them.
So, it's best for us to take care of them so that they can perform, give good customer service, be happy, all of these things so that not only do they stay longer, but they take pride in what they do. They take care of the people who come in the door, so it's a better chance of success for the business.
[0:25:48] Mike McFall:Yes. But wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, time out.
[0:25:51] Ed Buison: Sure.
[0:25:53] Mike McFall:I mean, you just said the line that every business owner says about their people, right? That's the line. But what you and Eileen do is extraordinary, is special. I don't think I've ever had somebody say to me, or say about me that I'm like the most wonderful person they've ever met in their whole lives. Come on, Ed. You're giving us the pat answer on that. Because there's more to it than that. I'm blanking on the woman's name that works for you. She's –
[0:26:27] Ed Buison: Megan.
[0:26:30] Mike McFall:Yes, Megan. These people are, they're incredible, and I always believe that the people within an organization are a reflection of the culture of the organization, which is truly established and nurtured by the owner, by the leader, and you and Eileen do that. So, I want to go below the surface here a little bit and get into why, because it's important to you. I know it is, but then how do you do it, I guess, would be the other thing? If you're listening to this podcast, I'd want to know how you got an employee of yours to say that you're like the best human being he's ever met in his life. So, how do you do that, Ed? What do you guys do differently? Or what do you emphasize?
[0:27:15] Ed Buison: Yes. That's a good point. So, we owe it to them almost to support them. We do that by, one, just conversation, right? Because you got to get to know them. It's one thing to just say I'm to support that, but in what way? I guess a side note is, Eileen and I didn't almost make it as a couple. In our first year, we almost got divorced. Somebody had recommended The Five Love Languages to us, as it means to like, “Hey, read this book.” I swear I hate to read, but I did read your books.
[0:27:50] Mike McFall:Sure, you did that. Sure, you did.
[0:27:52] Ed Buison: I did. I'm working on it.
[0:27:56] Laura Eich: Grind disorder, yes.
[0:27:58] Ed Buison: I didn't like it, but I'm like, “Look, if I'm going to salvage this marriage, somebody said this is a good book. Let me give it a shot.” We read the book. The takeaway was, everybody needs something different to feel loved, to feel appreciated, to feel all of these good things that we care about in a relationship. The same goes for people who work for you, people who everybody.
So, talking to them and getting to know them as a person, getting to know what their goal in life is, what they're going through in school, at home, all of these things. Maybe they don't even know what they need. They haven't even thought that far because of all of the other problems. But for us, as we experience things, as we get older, we can recognize, like, “Oh, they must be having problems in school because whatever situation at home.” So, they're stressed about school, and they don't think their home life is necessarily out of the ordinary, going into a higher degree, going into a career path.
We look for ways that we can support them in that regard, right? If somebody's like, “I'm struggling with money.” “Hey, have you ever thought about a budget?” “Well, what's a budget?” So, we're even going into that discussion. It's like, “Well, this is how you set up a budget. This is what you need versus this is what you want.” We go through those things. We help them understand in the store like, “Okay, we're just making coffee,” but there's things here that you can learn, a skill set that you can use in whatever career you're going to go into, whether you stay with us or you go somewhere else.
The big part of that is the talking and communication. Talking with various different people, because coffee, I believe, is just the medium that brings people together, whether they're a doctor, lawyer, a teacher, whatever. So, that all exposes them to all kinds of different personalities that they can converse with. The side benefit is, you may meet somebody that gives you a job later.
[0:30:05] Laura Eich: Totally.
[0:30:05] Ed Buison: Because they've laid out that relationship, and we've had it so many times, and it's very bittersweet for us. We hate to lose good people, but we're so happy that we've been a part of this connection to get them to the next step. So, getting to know them and realizing that you want to just help them as a person. I think that's the simplest sense, is you want to help them as a person, whatever that may be. I would say that – I guess the downside of that is, as I get to know these people, I have a stronger connection with them, I start to inherit their problems, because now, that keeps me up at night.
[0:30:38] Laura Eich: Sure.
[0:30:39] Ed Buison: How do I help them? They're struggling in math. How do we help them understand these certain concepts, and I've done those things. I'll sit down with them, but luckily, I was pretty good at math, and helping them through these problems, just some simple things.
And for us, Eileen, and I, as people, it doesn't seem extra ordinary, to be honest. I'm not just saying that. But then, when you look at the landscape of different employers, bosses, leaders, all these things, that is very different in how we approach things. And we come to find that people who come to work with us definitely stay longer. I mean, if you talk to Megan, she's like, "I was only going to be there for a few weeks, because I was going to go to nursing school." Then, 10 years later, here she is, and she's like, "I want to work with good people, and I love BIGGBY® , and I know you guys are going to help me and take care of me."
So, even with that outside, that's extreme case, we feel obligated even more so to help her and support her in doing all of these things. But we try to make that available for all of our staff. Now, I will say as we grow bigger in our organization, it is definitely harder to do that because there's just too many people. I can't have a meaningful connection with 80 people. That's impossible with one person. We have to balance family and things like.
What really struck me, especially in this montage video that was shown, there was a staff member there that I didn't really have a good – I haven't had much of a connection with. She spoke about me as if we did, so I did ask her, I'm like, "What did I do to help make a connection without me, because we don't really – we haven't really crossed path as much as I think we should." She goes, "Well, I've interacted with your leaders, Megan, some of the other managers, Daniel, Elaine, Veronica, all of these people. So, I know what kind of person you are, because those are the people that you surround yourself with, and they're the ones impacting us." Straight up, I was about to cry.
[0:32:49] Mike McFall: I'm about to cry. I'm about to cry.
[0:32:51] Ed Buison: Yes. I'm like, "Oh my God." So, that's how you manage. I was struggling with that. It's like, how do I reach all of these people when I can't do it myself? So, it's really through your leaders and your team that are basically an extension of you to be able to do those things. I mean, when I walk into a store, sometimes I don't even know them, and it really hurts me. I don't know their name, maybe they've worked there for a few weeks, but just – we don't cross paths because of the way things work. But some comfort that my leaders are taking care of them as if I would, because I do that for my leaders. I have a smaller circle that I can impact more frequently and more powerfully to help them be the best they can do, and they'll push it down the line as well with the other people.
That was just kind of recent discovery that makes me feel a lot better about growing, because that's the downside of growing. You're further and further away from your front-line people.
[0:33:50] Laura Eich: I feel like I should clarify, because I don't think we actually said this as part of your intro, but we've referenced it now a couple times. Which is that, Ed and Eileen were our Purpose Award winners for 2024's BIGGBY® Nation Summit. BIGGBY® Coffee's purpose is to support you in building a life you love. The Purpose Award is a really special award, because it's actually nominated by the staff members. The staff members nominate their franchise owner for this award. It's not a customer facing. It's like, the people that know you are the ones nominating you for this award.
I had the pleasure of reading all of the nominations for Ed, and I can tell you, man, did it just like pierce me right in the heart in the best way. Where I was like, "Oh my gosh, Ed is just like – just loving the crap out of these people, and I don't even know if he knows it." So, it's so fun to hear you talk about this. I kind of didn't know it. Didn't know how it was necessarily impacting people and everything. So like, that's just so cool.
I'm curious. It sounds like what your guys' main method is, which I love, is just like taking care of the individuals and teaching your managers to take care of the individuals in whatever way they need. I know, because you and I have talked about this. Like when you talk about the budgeting thing, which is a pretty common need of our most popular barista age, sort of in the 18 to 20, 21, 22-year-old range. They're learning a lot about money at that moment in time. I know you've brought in outside experts through the PNC relationship. You've made sure that your staff has real-life tools beyond just you. I'm curious, do you do more things like that? I know about the PNC thing, where you've brought in outside experts. Have you done that in other areas for your staff? Brought in experts, brought in specific topics?
[0:35:40] Ed Buison: Yes, that's just part of supporting them, because I only know so much, and I don't want to consider myself an expert in many things. So, if it gets to a point, what they need is past my limit, I need experts. When I go through all of my networking, all of my connections in the Chamber of Commerce, all of these things. Just like I do with anything else, when I talk with other business owners, it's one thing to say, "Hey, go find an accountant." That's somebody who has a lot of sensitive information, that hopefully, they're working in your best interest.
To have a starting point, like, "Look, this is my accountant, this is who the person I've trusted over the last 10 years, have a conversation, see if she can help you." That goes with, of course, financial, maybe financial planning. I'm talking to them, it's like, "Look, you guys at 20, you have the gift of time." You need to plan for your retirement, because there may not be social security, we don't know. So, let's do something, and not wait and see, and 40 years later, what's going to happen. So, start now.
I brought in like PNC or other personal financial people just to have conversations so that they start thinking about these things. I use all of my connections to help facilitate those discussions. And, if I feel a good connection with this outside person, I'll let them know. Like, "Look, I use this person for my own personal finances and my retirement. Again, at least there's a starting point of some trust that they're also going to help me, just like they're helping me, because of my relationship and that they trust me as well.
So yes, I do whatever I can in making these connections to help everyone involved. Of course, the people on the other side, if it's personal finance or whatnot, they love it because they're connecting with somebody so young and they have more time. They can build their portfolio or whatever the case is, health insurance. I mean, I had people come to me and said, "Where do I buy health insurance?" or "Where do I buy auto insurance?" Like, "Can I go to Meyer and buy auto insurance?" No. You know, let's talk about it. But it's very comforting, health insurance, same thing.
As I get to know somebody, I can figure out what's going on, where they need it, and we need support, I'll bring in people appropriately. Then, of course, if I'm bringing in somebody like that, I'll spread it to the entire group. It's like, "Look, we have somebody coming in to talk about budgeting. This is when it's going to be, this is where it's free. It'd be great to kind of listen and hear about these things even if you don't think you need it."
[0:38:24] Laura Eich: Now, I love that. I love – between some of these like practical things where you've brought in outside experts, or even like what you mentioned earlier, where you're teaching the skill of talking, which is such a major skill that people don't realize will serve them throughout the rest of their careers. We hear those stories about BIGGBY® all the time. We've heard from surgeons, and that kind of thing, that started at BIGGBY® and they're like, "BIGGBY® taught me how to talk to people." Some of these things are going to benefit these people forever.
I'm curious in particularly in the realm of leadership, because you have developed a leadership group of people. I'm curious how you approach that. Do you have certain books? Do you bring an outside expert there? How do you develop your leaders to be leaders in your stores?
[0:39:16] Ed Buison: Yes. I think that's very relevant because we're just starting to do that, because I think I'm at the point now that it's starting to get past my ability or what I'm really good at. I find myself, interestingly enough, my strength, I think at the moment, is building connections with people, which 10 years ago, it would be, "Yes, that's not going to happen." But I love doing that, and I love going into these events, networking events, and whatnot, and just meeting random people, and getting to know their story, and then trying to see how I can work with them or how they can work with maybe some of our people.
We went to – that was a ribbon cutting for a construction school. Their whole thing was about, we make it very cost effective for tuition. It's like 4,000 a year for an electrician, which was very good. I went straight, I went back right to the store because I knew somebody and like, "Hey," because he was talking to me about trades. So, I'm like, "Look, the school down the street, it's really affordable." But when we look at our own leaders, like Megan and our managers, we're starting to look for other organizations that help cultivate a leadership team. We've reached out to a few, and those were connections made through the Chamber of Commerce.
So, they help us with a lot of things that we do at LifeLab as well. What are your tendencies? What is our natural tendencies as a person? It may be a learned tendency or it could be a natural tendency. We use something we've adapted to, and to help just focus on you as a person so that you're aware of how you are, so that it helps you engage better with others. Hopefully, they understand what they do so that you can have a better communication.
When I've done some of the exercises, I remember when we did that BIGGBY® forum of owners, and in-home office people, Bob, and Mike, and you, of course. I remember the first time we got into this room, there was 15, and I'm sure you remember. They're like, "Stand up in front of the room. Each one of you, tell your deepest, darkest secret." I said, "What?" I was about to run out the door. It’s like, "Wait. I don't know anybody here. You want me to share my deepest, darkest secret? What the heck? What kind of meeting is this?"
But I actually do that in our meetings, because I do find it very impactful, because it brings down the barriers. If I can support you when you're at your most vulnerable, I'm not going to laugh, I'm
not going to judge. I'm going to come from an angle of support. Then, everything else is easy. It's an easier conversation. So, I've done that with all of our leaders. I've gotten to know them at that very basic level, and they know that about me. So, there's an inherent trust there that we're not going to mess each other up. Because like, "Well, you got stuff on me, I got stuff on you, but we're not going to use it." It's almost like a standoff.
[0:42:08] Laura Eich: Mutual agreement, yes.
[0:42:09] Ed Buison: Right?
[0:42:10] Mike McFall: Yes. Yes.
[0:42:10] Ed Buison: That premise has led us to this point.
[0:42:14] Mike McFall: If anybody ever wonders how BIGGBY® is going to become just the most amazing company in the next 20 years, they just need to listen to this interview, right?
[0:42:24] Laura Eich: Yes, do what Ed does.
[0:42:27] Mike McFall: Yes, in so many ways. I also add, if you ever wanted to do some kind of an event with your leaders where I could come and spend a morning or an afternoon, and just share my lessons that I've learned, and that I wrote, and grow and stuff. I'd be happy to do that. I think it would be great.
[0:42:42] Ed Buison: Oh, that's beautiful. Beautiful. Yes.
[0:42:44] Laura Eich: That'd be cool.
[0:42:45] Ed Buison: Love it.
[0:42:46] Laura Eich: I'm curious. You talked about some of the tendencies, the learning different leadership methods, that kind of thing. Earlier, you mentioned the love languages. Have you brought in the languages of appreciation in the workplace, which is like the work version of the love languages?
[0:42:59] Ed Buison: Not yet.
[0:43:00] Laura Eich: Oh, that's exciting.
[0:43:02] Ed Buison: I just kind of heard about it during B&S and stuff. Like, that's something that we want to bring in.
[0:43:08] Laura Eich: Cool, that'll be fun. I'll be curious how that goes. And on that front, do you want to share your primary love language? Because that's a fun game for me.
[0:43:16] Ed Buison: Yes. So, when we read the book the first time, and they say, read it through, and then maybe a few years later, read it again. I haven't read it again because I'm still pretty sure that this is what it is. It is words of affirmation. Go figure it out.
[0:43:31] Laura Eich: That's what I would have guessed. Really handy that we gave you this award with all sorts of words of affirmation involved with it, which is great.
[0:43:39] Ed Buison: That's what I'm like – it's one of those things where you go about your day, you do these things. And it's funny, because you kind of touched on earlier. My team knew months ahead that I was going to win this award, but they kept it a secret for all of the time. Even when I was talking to Megan. Now, she's the director of ops, and she's been with us for 10 years. Of course, every day, there's ups and downs. It's okay if we have breakdowns with our team, because it just shows you're a person too. I don't have to carry on this stoic and perfect appearance, I want them to know that I'm also human, a person, that I have ups and downs, I can cry, all of these things.
I told her, after that award, I'm like, "You knew this whole time." I said, "Here I am breaking down a few weeks ago, questioning things, and you had this in your pocket." She's like, "No, I had to keep it, because it's going to be so much better." I forgot the question, Laura.
[0:44:40] Laura Eich: It was just, what was your language? Well, your love language, but I'm
pretty sure it's going to be your language of appreciation.
[0:44:45] Ed Buison: We both talk about these things, and we don't do it for the recognition. But it is done, it's when you're recognized. So, that's one, words of affirmation. Then, physical touch. I know in the book, if anyone has read the book, it's like, "Oh, yes. Of course, you're a guy." The first inclination is touch, because you just want to be touched, and then touch your spouse. But I do feel if I want to hug Eileen, and if she's a little standoffish, like, I'm like, "Oh my God, she hates me. She's going to send me papers tomorrow." I really feel that I'm rejected. I try to hold her hand, and it's like, she pulls it away. I'm like, "Oh my God." It's really devastating. So yes, those are the two for me.
[0:45:32] Laura Eich: Ed, you and I have a lot in common. It's just what I'm learning. Mike, what were you going to say?
[0:45:38] Mike McFall: I was going to ask you what yours were, but I think I just learned that.
[0:45:41] Laura Eich: Yes, they're the same. Including – I think in the workplace, mine's a little bit different. It's still words of affirmation is first in the workplace. So, like, if someone doesn't tell me I'm doing a good job every once in a while, I think I am doing a bad job." So, it's very much like, you can tell some of your love languages, your language of appreciation by like, if it's
not there, what's happening in your brain. In my marriage, it's very much physical touch, and then words of affirmation as well. So, that's so funny.
[0:46:11] Mike McFall: Hey, Laura. You're doing a really good job.
[0:46:14] Laura Eich: Thanks so much, Mike.
[0:46:15] Ed Buison: You're doing an amazing job.
[0:46:17] Laura Eich: Thanks you guys. You got to be more specific about it technically, but that's okay, we'll work on that.
[0:46:22] Mike McFall: Oh, do you want me to get specific?
[0:46:24] Laura Eich: No, not right now.
[0:46:27] Mike McFall: Because I can.
[0:46:29] Laura Eich: We can talk later. We can do that in the debrief, the outro of the show. That's really fun. Do you use any personality? You talked about raising some of those tendency awareness’s with your leadership team. Do you get to use anything like DiSC, or Myers-Briggs, or 16 Personalities, or any of those with your leadership team right now?
[0:46:51] Ed Buison: No, we haven't yet. That's something that we're trying to get to. Right now, everything is finding the balance of your leadership team, whether they're a manager of a store or managing multiple stores. Trying to also put them in a position where they're managing the store. We're not necessarily working on the line every day of every minute. So, building that time so that they can focus on other things to build the store build themselves up, that's our transition right now in our organization, is getting them to be leaders, so that they can effectively lead their people. So, we're just in the very beginning of looking at those different assessments, like the DiSC assessment, all of these other things.
It was actually a good timing for us when we took that, and I take away some of the things that I've learned about myself. I'll share little snippets of things as I can, but formally, we haven't done it yet.
[0:47:46] Laura Eich: Okay, cool. We'll do a part two after. I want to hear how that goes. Mike, we're running low on time. So, do you have anything else for Ed?
[0:47:55] Mike McFall: Oh boy. I think stories are a great way to emphasize how you work. Can you please tell the story about Megan, and the car, and how you supported her that way?
[0:48:10] Ed Buison: Sure. I mean, it's funny the way our relationship has grown. I didn't know this until a few years later. But when she started working for us, the first week that we opened, this young kid, 19 years old, and she had lost her stepdad that week of training. I became basically her father figure during this time, because I was the only stable thing in her life at the moment. She didn't tell me that until maybe two or three years later. Of course, now, I am crying, and I didn't know what I was doing at the time. She's very young, very young in my business career and being a leader. But since then, our relationship has grown tremendously.
And we feel, of course, in a business sense, you never say, or want to have somebody in a position where they're irreplaceable, right? I told her this, I don't know if I'm supposed to or not, but it's just, she's irreplaceable in our organization. She holds everything together. She treats it as if it's her own. We almost feel indebted. We feel a certain amount of that to all of our staff, but even so much more for her, because she's helping us get to where we want to be.
As a young – I'll call her a kid, as a young kid when she was 19 or 20, she had said, "Your success is my success." That was just mind blowing to me, that somebody so young would have that realization. So, all of these years, we do everything we can to support her, whether that's helping her with their first house, a car.
So much now that we're in discussions to also make her an owner with us, because we valued her that much. It's like, "You helped us build all of these businesses. We already consider you an owner, we just got to put it on paper." Because when we have big decisions in our organization, the first person we consult with is her. It's like, "What do you think? Because you've been in it just as long as I have, you know the system, you know what we're doing. You can run the line better than I can now." So, that's our current discussion of just bringing her in as an owner, because she already acts like one.
All of these things, it's just like we feel that we want to help, and give back to her, and support her, and all of these things through a house, a car, a future. We want to do those things and we're so happy to do it alongside these people.
[0:50:43] Laura Eich: That's really cool. All right. Ed, I've got one more question for you, which is, what's your biggest goal right now?
[0:50:50] Ed Buison: Biggest goal? I think, we talk about – and I use this to part of The Moonshot Guidebook. It was something that never I could do is to write your own obituary. I couldn't do it, but I have a good idea of what I want it to be. I share that with my people. One of them is that having my leadership team and being able to enjoy everything that everything that we've done. Of course, it started with just our family, our kids, our direct family, but they're also our family. It's like being able to have the time and resources like, "Look, you know what, you guys, we put in the work, we worked all of these years grinding away. All of these things, let's go enjoy it. We're taking a trip. Where do you want to go?"
We could do these things and we enjoy what the world has to offer together, because I really do feel indebted to them. Because if we can get to where we want to be, they should come along. We're not selfish, we're not greedy. So, to have that would be what we're trying to achieve. To do that, to have a future with all of these people, we also recognize we have to grow our footprint, we have to grow our organization for them to move up to take leadership roles. Because otherwise, when there's a ceiling, they're going to leave, that's inevitable.
If there's no challenge, there's no opportunity, they're going to go somewhere else. So, that's another reason for growing our stores, so that they have a place to go to if they want to stay. Because one thing, they want to stay for, let's say forever, but if there can only be a shift lead, then, that only takes them so far. I better start another store to make some room so people can move up, be a manager, and then, potentially be an owner with us. Because we do make that option available. It's like, "Look, you want to be an owner with us? We can help you."
We'll have the track record of working years together where it's a no-brainer. So, that's the goal, is just to help our people, and of course, almost the side benefit is as our family will benefit from it. But helping them achieve what they want, growing our footprint, our organization to give opportunities for them so that they can have a future. Because what they recognize is when I talk to them about what their goals are, and what they want to be later on in life. A lot of times, it's not a title, it's not, I want to do something specific. I want to – it's not, "I want to build buildings. It's just, I want to travel. I want to have a house. I want to live on the lake." It's like, "okay. Well, if that's what it is, does it necessarily mean what you're doing? Does it matter?" "Well, I want to be happy. I want to do all these things." It's like, "Well, you can do that with us."
[0:53:37] Laura Eich: Yes. Yes.
[0:53:39] Ed Buison: I have a place to put you if you want to grow to that level, and be able to have a house on the lake. So, that's our goal right now. It's just to, of course, be sustainable as a business, be profitable to grow, and grow our organization so that our people could also have a future, should they choose to within our organization.
[0:53:58] Laura Eich: Ed, you are kind, you are humble, you are smart, you're super successful. I love how you're doing this. I love how you're running a business. I think it's just like the architecture for how people should run businesses. So, thank you so much for sharing your heart and your mind with us today. This was beautiful. I'm so excited to see what happens next, how you keep growing, and how you keep growing your people, because I just think – I think you guys are doing it the right way, and I just appreciate you so much.
[0:54:27] Ed Buison: Yes. We appreciate you guys, and thank you for that. I mean, you're obviously, you're speaking to my love language.
[0:54:33] Laura Eich: I got you.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:54:44] Mike McFall: Well, I knew that was going to be amazing. I know Ed real well, and I was excited to have that conversation with him.
[0:54:52] Laura Eich: Me too.
[0:54:52] Mike McFall: He might be the most people-oriented leader that I know. I mean, it's just, it's like his obsession, and that really came through. The line I loved was, we're not really
doing anything special, we're just doing what we do in the world.
[0:55:15] Laura Eich: Right. Then, he proceeded to like say all of the very special things, a thing or two.
[0:55:20] Mike McFall: Well, I know.
[0:55:21] Laura Eich: After a bit of prodding.
[0:55:23] Mike McFall: But, you know, the thing is, I don't think he and Eileen look at that stuff special.
[0:55:27] Laura Eich: No, they don't.
[0:55:28] Mike McFall: And that's what is just so incredible about how they lead, how they run their business. It is so human-oriented.
[0:55:38] Laura Eich: Yes, I love that. I felt like the lesson I was taking away if I was listening as a business owner is like, "Okay, I just have to talk to all of my individual staff members, and learn exactly what they need, and then provide it." That might sound overwhelming, but also, that is the method. Finding out what they need. Now, you're going to find some similarities. I knew he referenced the PNC thing, because I've talked to his friend at PNC Bank, Vaughn. I know what he's offered to them. They've offered these classes, basically, like free budgeting classes, and things that are sort of beyond what we offer in our workshops. That's because he found so many of his staff members were needing some sort of financial advice, and like unintimidating financial advice. We're not talking about investing in stock market things. We're talking about like start saving $25 a paycheck, and here's how it will add up over time, and things like that. I just think they're doing it right, they're running their business right, and it's really amazing.
[0:56:38] Mike McFall: Well, the other thing that he said that landed for me was, it all started with or starts with just getting to know your people. That's it.
[0:56:49] Laura Eich: Yes.
[0:56:50] Mike McFall: Then, the other thing he said is, you do that differently for each person. You don't sit down with a script and like –
[0:56:59] Laura Eich: Tell me all of your passions in life.
[0:57:01] Mike McFall: Right. But it's one, that you've got to get to know your people, and you have to immerse yourself in their world to do that. It isn't something, it's not like a check the box and a management meeting type thing. So, that really came through for me too. Then, that's what gives them the sort of power. Power is not the right word, the authority, the agency to support people.
[0:57:29] Laura Eich: Yes. The amount of times he said, "We feel sort of indebted to our people," I love that. That warmed my whole heart. They understand the importance of their staff members. Staff members are not disposable workers in the world. They're real people that are serving them and they want to serve them in return. I just think that's beautiful.
[0:57:49] Mike McFall: That's it. That's, boy, is that something.
[0:57:53] Laura Eich: It's powerful.
[0:57:54] Mike McFall: Right. I think, as you said in the podcast, like it shouldn't be, this shouldn't be abnormal, but it certainly is. I think for most people in their experience in the world, and I wanted to scream out loud, like, "That's what this podcast is about." Hard stop.
[0:58:14] Laura Eich: Yes. He's like our poster child.
[0:58:18] Mike McFall: I know, I know. Boy, It's wonderful.
[0:58:21] Laura Eich: So good. Any other takeaways from our conversation with Ed?
[0:58:24] Mike McFall: No. I mean, just that – once again, it confirms that he's the best person in the whole wide world.
[0:58:32] Laura Eich: Very good, confirmed.
[0:58:34] Mike McFall: And it's just such a – I mean, I sit here just feeling absolutely honored that he's with us, and he's part of our group, and all the magic he brings. And I just wish we could infuse the world with a little bit of – like we need like an Ed Buison, what do you call that, when you booster shot.
[0:58:56] Laura Eich: Yes. Okay.
[0:58:57] Mike McFall: You know what I mean? Get a little Ed Buison in you.
[0:59:01] Laura Eich: Yes. Anytime I think someone maybe needs a little touch of that, I'm going to be like, can you just call Ed, and just talk to him for a while. Just talk to him for a while. Don't worry about what you need to talk about. You'll get it.
[0:59:15] Mike McFall: Totally.
[0:59:15] Laura Eich: Yeah, cool.
[OUTRO]
[0:59:17] Laura Eich: All right, dear listener, to make sure that you don't miss an episode of Love in Leadership, be sure to hit that follow button wherever you find podcasts. While you're there, do us a solid and leave us a rating or review. To follow along with Mike and I as we explore the world, follow us on our social channels @lifeyoulovelab and @mikejmcfall. If you have an idea, like I said, for a guest that you think we should connect with, please email us at lifelab@BIGGBY.com. To learn more about BIGGBY® COFFEE's purpose of supporting you in building a life you love, check out BIGGBY.com. Love you, Mike.
[0:59:47] Mike McFall: Love you too, Laura. I always love the "Do us a solid" reference.
[0:59:51] Laura Eich: I know. I thought of it this time. We're never going to get away from that. Okay, listener, we love you too for who you are. We'll see you next time.
[END]